http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/performing-quality/
The bunker mentality of these folks when questioned is obvious. They play games with meanings constantly moving the goal lines so you can't ever put your finger on their ideas. Then the payoff for the highfalutin language are very simple observations.
Philip Fried
“..by demonstrating my text’s inflexibility to simplification you justify my own stylistic choices…”
Now that we are getting closer to brass tacks things are heating up a bit. Still, at present, after reading all the comments here I am on the side of those who feel that your ideas could be clearer. To tell a tale is a fine thing. To tell a tale parsed through political ideas does not guarantee insight. On the other hand If you state your facts plainly the politics will become quite apparent.
There is certainly nothing wrong with questioning aspects or even the totality of a musical career, if that is what you are doing. You can opt out at any time you know. Philip Fried
“..,To say, “if you don’t like this field, leave” is both childish and dangerous…”
But I did not say that, (I did not mean to) –rather I was pointing out that one can chose how they experience the musical profession. There are alternatives. Some of which I have taken myself. Rules can be broken.
… “state the facts plainly”, as it were – have managed to say nothing but “what? I don’t get it.” Clearly what he is putting forth is interesting to a good deal of people – and so the burden of proof is on the commenters…”
Since we all have different backgrounds and training I asked questions. My first question to Marek was technical. I wanted to understand his idea of “quality” yet his answer did not help as it lead me to a new term which I was also unfamiliar. Anyway, my lack of understanding is not a criticism it is a challenge because I want to understand.
I’m not a hater.
I believe my comments have been even handed. If this blog was intended as a private party I apologize. As for clarity, its own reward, I merely offer advise.
The larger point is this; NMB is not a University forum, not a graduate student forum, but a public forum. Anyone who wants to communicate here needs to keep that in mind.
Phil Fried
Referencing the hypothetical music festival described — it seems
that we have the equivalent of composer/performer speed dating. Bummer.
That said many friendships and lifelong relationships come from such
interactions. Careers are made. So festivals are not a discrete part
of a musicians life but part of the whole.
—–
I know very few professional or pre-professional performers who say they have too much work.
—–
Since composers and performers are both workers they have much common ground. Yet I know many composers who do not align themselves with workers as they see themselves as management because in their view they work for whoever hires the musicians. Not me.
—-
The biggest change in the relationship between composers and performers (what of composer/performers) is the distribution of grants. 30 years ago grants were mostly given directly to composers now they are given to ensembles or ensembles and composers. This may not of affected composition but it does effect what is performed.
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/new-music-is-academic-music/
“.. that Schoenberg initialized the academic turn… composers
turned their back on the audience, writing music more akin to jargon …
Babbitt’s … evidenced a project characterized by the insularity and
elitism …”
I do appreciate, at last, the mention of composers in your essays. That said your comments, or perhaps not your comments (you imply that someone else told you this), are sadly, in line with many of the disparages of these composers. Sigh.
Perhaps its ironic that many of the folks who say they reject Babbitt’s approach to composition, fully embrace Babbitt’s prose style to explain their own work.
No sonic prejudice
Phil Fried
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/new-musics-quality-problem/
… a “discourse of quality”—a mode of talking, abstractly, weirdly, about our musical agencies. ”
I’m from a different generation Marek so I’m not sure what you mean by “agencies”. Could you explain further?
If by “quality” you mean the possession and understanding of technique it is my understanding that many composers feel that, borrowing from the visual arts, technique is just another style. Not to mention which styles and their related techniques are in question.
Perhaps this is just a renewal of the “sizzle or the steak” debate.
Phil Fried
Phil Fried
Your a hard man to pin down.
The bunker mentality of these folks when questioned is obvious. They play games with meanings constantly moving the goal lines so you can't ever put your finger on their ideas. Then the payoff for the highfalutin language are very simple observations.
Philip Fried
Now that we are getting closer to brass tacks things are heating up a bit. Still, at present, after reading all the comments here I am on the side of those who feel that your ideas could be clearer. To tell a tale is a fine thing. To tell a tale parsed through political ideas does not guarantee insight. On the other hand If you state your facts plainly the politics will become quite apparent.
There is certainly nothing wrong with questioning aspects or even the totality of a musical career, if that is what you are doing. You can opt out at any time you know.
But I did not say that, (I did not mean to) –rather I was pointing out that one can chose how they experience the musical profession. There are alternatives. Some of which I have taken myself. Rules can be broken.
… “state the facts plainly”, as it were – have managed to say nothing but “what? I don’t get it.” Clearly what he is putting forth is interesting to a good deal of people – and so the burden of proof is on the commenters…”
Since we all have different backgrounds and training I asked questions. My first question to Marek was technical. I wanted to understand his idea of “quality” yet his answer did not help as it lead me to a new term which I was also unfamiliar. Anyway, my lack of understanding is not a criticism it is a challenge because I want to understand.
I’m not a hater.
I believe my comments have been even handed. If this blog was intended as a private party I apologize. As for clarity, its own reward, I merely offer advise.
The larger point is this; NMB is not a University forum, not a graduate student forum, but a public forum. Anyone who wants to communicate here needs to keep that in mind.
Phil Fried —–
I know very few professional or pre-professional performers who say they have too much work.
—–
Since composers and performers are both workers they have much common ground. Yet I know many composers who do not align themselves with workers as they see themselves as management because in their view they work for whoever hires the musicians. Not me.
—-
The biggest change in the relationship between composers and performers (what of composer/performers) is the distribution of grants. 30 years ago grants were mostly given directly to composers now they are given to ensembles or ensembles and composers. This may not of affected composition but it does effect what is performed.
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/new-music-is-academic-music/
I do appreciate, at last, the mention of composers in your essays. That said your comments, or perhaps not your comments (you imply that someone else told you this), are sadly, in line with many of the disparages of these composers. Sigh.
Perhaps its ironic that many of the folks who say they reject Babbitt’s approach to composition, fully embrace Babbitt’s prose style to explain their own work.
No sonic prejudice
Phil Fried
If by “quality” you mean the possession and understanding of technique it is my understanding that many composers feel that, borrowing from the visual arts, technique is just another style. Not to mention which styles and their related techniques are in question.
Perhaps this is just a renewal of the “sizzle or the steak” debate.
Phil Fried
Phil Fried
